| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Derisory freelance rates for legal work Thread poster: AllegroTrans
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AllegroTrans 
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:47
Member (2011)
French to English
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What do other site users think about ProZ consistently allowing a particular translation agency in Paris to advertise jobs with a budget of around €0.045 per word? The subject areas for this derisory rate even include such subjects as medical patent documentation. I am not referring to a "one off" advert (e.g. where the end client is a charity or NGO etc.) but this agency is being allowed to consistently offer this appalling rate.
ProZ claims to uphold and support our profession b... See more What do other site users think about ProZ consistently allowing a particular translation agency in Paris to advertise jobs with a budget of around €0.045 per word? The subject areas for this derisory rate even include such subjects as medical patent documentation. I am not referring to a "one off" advert (e.g. where the end client is a charity or NGO etc.) but this agency is being allowed to consistently offer this appalling rate.
ProZ claims to uphold and support our profession but I feel they are allowing us to be binned.
Any comments?
[Edited at 2022-08-23 16:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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For me, several parties are at fault here:
1. Proz.com because it allows these agencies to advertise this kind of jobs;
2. The agency as the rates offered are derisory,
3. The translators who accept working for those rates…
This agency address corresponds to a virtual office, so I wonder if this is a British agency or one of the many Far-Eastern agencies which claim to be based in London…
| | | | | €0.01 EUR to €0.06 EUR/word | Aug 23, 2022 |
This was the rate offered for a job posted from France a couple of weeks ago. Field was tourism, so a field every person on earth can do  . Languages required were French to Dutch, French to English, French to German, French to Italian, French to Spanish
I forget the exact number but around 200 people were willing to work for those rates. Says it all really. No one forced anyone to go for this great (potential!!!) job. Oh, an... See more This was the rate offered for a job posted from France a couple of weeks ago. Field was tourism, so a field every person on earth can do . Languages required were French to Dutch, French to English, French to German, French to Italian, French to Spanish
I forget the exact number but around 200 people were willing to work for those rates. Says it all really. No one forced anyone to go for this great (potential!!!) job. Oh, and the agency that posted the job has nothing but 5s on the Blueboard (9 ratings).
ProZ is a business. Not a defender of translators or the translation profession. Simple as that. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | ProZ.com professional guidelines for translators, interpreters and translation companies | Aug 23, 2022 |
I wonder why the ProZ.com professional guidelines for translators, interpreters and translation companies are not highlighted/shared and applied more prominently.
Endorsing them is a requirement for those who participate in the ProZ.com Certified Pro program, and 47147 professionals have supposedly agreed to uphold them, to this day.
How many (both linguists and agencies) really do? Your guess is as good as mine. Why endorse something if you are not going (or maybe ne... See more I wonder why the ProZ.com professional guidelines for translators, interpreters and translation companies are not highlighted/shared and applied more prominently.
Endorsing them is a requirement for those who participate in the ProZ.com Certified Pro program, and 47147 professionals have supposedly agreed to uphold them, to this day.
How many (both linguists and agencies) really do? Your guess is as good as mine. Why endorse something if you are not going (or maybe never intended) to follow through?
We are linguists, our word is important… What, no?
Here you go, feast your eyes:
https://www.proz.com/professional-guidelines?pg_version=1.3
Under Project Guidelines, it is stated translators should: "set their rates at levels sufficient to enable them to perform in line with project requirements on an ongoing basis"
and
Under Outsourcing Guidelines, it it stated outsourcers should: "pay subcontractors at levels that make it possible to complete work in line with project requirements on an ongoing basis"
On an ongoing basis. Yeah… Well, I guess sustainability is all the rage until someone has to make a profit or (on the other side of the bargain) put food on the table or just shoot themselves on the foot, hurting everyone else in the process.
Anyway, the job board is mostly a nasty place, that sensitive souls should avoid as hell (I know I do). Most jobs there are price-"sensitive" and specifically posted to pit applicants against each other in a race to the bottom.
This is one of the last places I would want to look…
Note: OP, please redact the agency's name as the thread may be deleted due to not respecting forum rules: https://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/8#8
[Edited at 2022-08-23 15:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:47
Member (2011)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The fact also is.... | Aug 23, 2022 |
that many of us freelance translators are paying membership fees to ProZ. As such, we ought to have some degree of say in the site's policies. Undermining and demeaning us by allowing agencies to advertise derisory fees is unacceptable. We can name and shame scammers, why can't we name and shame sharks?
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 17:47
Spanish to English
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| Welcome to the new normal | Aug 23, 2022 |
As far as I can see, the rates in question fall within what is now considered "an acceptable range," at least as regards: 1.) posted or mass-emailed offers that aim to solicit scores of bids; and 2.) work within the most common language pairs.
With such offers now being the norm, there is zero probability of this site imposing limits. After all, it refused to do so 10-15 years ago when the rates discussed here could truly have been termed "derisory.”
[Edited at 2022-08-23... See more As far as I can see, the rates in question fall within what is now considered "an acceptable range," at least as regards: 1.) posted or mass-emailed offers that aim to solicit scores of bids; and 2.) work within the most common language pairs.
With such offers now being the norm, there is zero probability of this site imposing limits. After all, it refused to do so 10-15 years ago when the rates discussed here could truly have been termed "derisory.”
[Edited at 2022-08-23 23:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Exchange rates parity | Aug 23, 2022 |
If you lived in a remote country, considering parity and cost of living, Euro 0.045/word wouldn't be that bad, to meet ends. Of course you would never get rich, but every salary work offer dumping wages, anyway.
Oliver
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 17:47
Japanese to English
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| derisory rates | Aug 24, 2022 |
The fact that proz.com allows these agencies to post is the reason I am no longer a paying member.
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| Outrageously high rates | Aug 24, 2022 |
AllegroTrans wrote:
What do other site users think about ProZ consistently allowing a particular translation agency in Paris to advertise jobs with a budget of around €0.045 per word?
What would you feel about a translator whose ProZ profile specified ridiculously high rates? Should that be allowed?
I mean, if I think I can find clients willing to pay me 5 euros per word, why not? What about 50 euros per word? Isn't that up to me?
So if a translation agency thinks it can find translators who are willing to work for 0.00001€ per word, why not let them try it?
I realise I'm playing devil's advocate here, but the inescapable fact is that one person's "derisory" rate might seem quite reasonable to somebody else. If I was running ProZ I'd be afraid to dip my foot into those deep, turbulent and murky waters.
| | | | dkfmmuc
Local time: 23:47
Member (2009)
German to English
+ ...
| Thank you for ringing the alarm bells - appreciated | Aug 24, 2022 |
AllegroTrans wrote:
What do other site users think about ProZ consistently allowing a particular translation agency in Paris to advertise jobs with a budget of around €0.045 per word? The subject areas for this derisory rate even include such subjects as medical patent documentation. I am not referring to a "one off" advert (e.g. where the end client is a charity or NGO etc.) but this agency is being allowed to consistently offer this appalling rate.
ProZ claims to uphold and support our profession but I feel they are allowing us to be binned.
Any comments?
[Edited at 2022-08-23 16:15 GMT]
Dead colleagues,
at first I would like to thank AllegroTrans for stepping up and ringing the alarm bells. On the one hand it is time-saving that a customer/client openly communicates what he is thinking about his suppliers. This saves us even to try to reach that agency.
On the other hand it is a sign of a shift of power. In economics you would call this something like a buyer's market with eroding gross profits.
What hurts me most is the lack of respect for an essential and mission-critical profession. The investment in the translation respectively localization of a website, a manual is often besides the required national certification (eg. for product safety) the only investment needed in offering services or selling products to a new target country.
And this service should be much cheaper than work carried out by the own staff in the office? Not evaluating the fact that the translator bears the risk, has to do the credit worthiness research on his own and has none if the perks of the own staff.
It is time for the customers to rethink the value of each part of the supply chain. Language and especially a native speaker have unique values.
Which by the way can save large amounts of money just by the amendment of the translator that a specific marketing claim is not perfect in the target language, sounds awful or even will attract the attention of those competitors wanting to take (and cash in) legal actions.
In view of the recent developments my personal recommendation would be to think about diversification. The best would be several pillars of income.
Best regards
Gerd
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 00:47
Member
English to Turkish
| More proof that translation is dead as a profession | Aug 24, 2022 |
dkfmmuc wrote:
Dead colleagues,
MT, best rate and London agencies, big business have gone and done it... we're dead.
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Here's to creating a dead translators society one day.
By translators for translators.
And to keep the metaphor alive, the address would be that of an urn at a cemetery, instead of a PO Box.
London-based, naturally.
[Edited at 2022-08-24 08:30 GMT]
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Jean Dimitriadis wrote:
Under Project Guidelines, it is stated translators should: "set their rates at levels sufficient to enable them to perform in line with project requirements on an ongoing basis"
and
Under Outsourcing Guidelines, it it stated outsourcers should: "pay subcontractors at levels that make it possible to complete work in line with project requirements on an ongoing basis"
What does that even mean?
Is that really the best the Dotterers could come up with?
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post. | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 17:47
Spanish to English
+ ...
| The horse has left the barn | Aug 24, 2022 |
AllegroTrans wrote:
that many of us freelance translators are paying membership fees to ProZ. As such, we ought to have some degree of say in the site's policies. Undermining and demeaning us by allowing agencies to advertise derisory fees is unacceptable. We can name and shame scammers, why can't we name and shame sharks?
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