| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3 4] > | Birth certificate question: client requests name change in translation Автор темы: Kathleen Shelly
|
|---|
jyuan_us 
США
Local time: 00:27
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => китайский
+ ...
| Mathew didn't change his name to Mathieu on his birth certificate | May 11, 2018 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
A British person named Mathew moving to France will have his name changed to Mathieu in his birth certificate? Just because they want so and it will be done by translator?
Mathew's birth certificate was translated into French, and he wanted the equivalent/corresponding name in French, i.e. Mathieu, to appear on the French translation of his birth certificate.
Mathew didn't change his name to Mathieu on his birth certificate. Only his name was written in the French way on the translation copy. Mathew will almost always need to use the French translation of his birth certificate together with its original English copy anyway.
[Edited at 2018-05-11 22:05 GMT]
[Edited at 2018-05-12 09:53 GMT]
| | | | Vanda Nissen
Австралия
Local time: 14:27
Член ProZ.com c 2008
английский => русский
+ ...
| Saint Petersburg | May 11, 2018 |
I wonder... if an RU-EN translator were to translate a birth certificate for a Russian person named Dmitri Yemets, born in Saint Petersburg, would his translation say "Sankt-Peterburg" (the transliteration of "Санкт-Петербу́рг") or "Saint Petersburg"? I'll wager the latter. But would the translation say "Dmítrij Emec" (the transliteration of "Дми́трий Емец") or "Dmitri Yemets"? (-:
Here, we already have an established norm, the common name is Saint Petersburg, there is no need to use transliteration. As for the names, it is much more difficult because Дмитрий can become Dmitri, Dmitriy, Dmitrii, or Dmitry, basically it is the same name. To make things worse, if this Дмитрий was born in the USSR and then became Ukrainian citizen, his name is now spelled differently as Дмитро, respectively, transliterated as Dmytro in English. Sometimes it is very challenging for people to prove that Dmitri and Dmytro is the same person.
| | | | Vanda Nissen
Австралия
Local time: 14:27
Член ProZ.com c 2008
английский => русский
+ ...
| Our life is not easy | May 11, 2018 |
Every time the authorities think things are getting too easy for us translators, they change the transliteration system. And when they're not doing that, they change the format of the document.
In a nutshell, Aistair, it is not an easy job:).
| | | | jyuan_us
США
Local time: 00:27
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => китайский
+ ...
| That guy's passport will match his birth certificate | May 11, 2018 |
Michael Wetzel wrote:
And what if someone asks for an additional form of ID? The passport won't match the birth certificate.
Did you imply that that someone will reply on the translation copy of the guy's birth certificate as a legal document without looking at its original?
If not, that guy's passport will match his birth certificate. It is his original birth certificate that is a legal form of identification.
| | |
|
|
|
jyuan_us
США
Local time: 00:27
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => китайский
+ ...
| Is there any law that stipulates "花子" & "Hanako" two different ways of writing the same name? | May 11, 2018 |
Michael Wetzel wrote:
"花子" and "Hanako" are two different ways of writing the same name.
If they really are, I'm still not convinced why Richardo and Richard are NOT "two different ways of writing the same name".
| | | | | Richard ... and Rose | May 11, 2018 |
On reading this thread, I am reminded of the name changes that affected European settlers in the Araucanía region of Chile in the last quarter of the 19th century.
They came from several places - France, Spain, the British Isles (which included what is now the Republic of Ireland in those days), Italy, Switzerland, Prussia, … even Russia - to occupy land taken from the indigenous “Mapuche” people in a government-sponsored operation euphemistically known as the “Pacification... See more On reading this thread, I am reminded of the name changes that affected European settlers in the Araucanía region of Chile in the last quarter of the 19th century.
They came from several places - France, Spain, the British Isles (which included what is now the Republic of Ireland in those days), Italy, Switzerland, Prussia, … even Russia - to occupy land taken from the indigenous “Mapuche” people in a government-sponsored operation euphemistically known as the “Pacification of the Araucanía” ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Araucanía ).
Of course, those Europeans had been given “European” names - Peter, Marie, Giorgio, Friedrich, Antionnette, … - when they were baptised in their homelands. But upon their arrival in Chile on the steamships charted by the Chilean government of the day, they had to be registered as “Chilean citizens” (taking citizenship was a condition of their contract with the government). And many of them found their official names changed from Peter to Pedro, Marie to María, Giorggio to Jorge, Friedrich to Federico, Antionette to … And this didn’t only affect their “given” names. All of a sudden they were lumbered with double-barrelled surnames - paternal surname followed by the maternal -, whereas previously they had borne only the surname of their father.
Sad(?) to say, we no longer live in the 19th century. And when I came to Chile, also from Europe, in the early 21st century, and I had to get a Chilean ID card, I made damned sure it showed my real name, as given to me by my parents (and by my native England) over five decades earlier.
I’m no “Rose” (those who know me will vouch for that…) – but I cherish the fragrance of my English given names and the single-barrelled surname on my Chilean ID card which are a precise match for those on my British passport.
All that aside, the answer to OP’s question is surely: it all depends on what the translation will be used for. If it’s for official use (formal proof of identity, etc.), the translation must match the ST. We are who we are and not who we pretend to be. Unless, that is, we have something to hide… But if the translation is just for innocent ‘fun’ between family and friends, then Richard can call himself whatever he wants: Ricardo, Dicky Boy, Ricarda, Riquilda, …
RL ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
Франция
Local time: 06:27
французский => английский
| you're splitting hairs here | May 12, 2018 |
jyuan_us wrote: Michael Wetzel wrote:
"花子" and "Hanako" are two different ways of writing the same name. If they really are, I'm still not convinced why Richardo and Richard are NOT "two different ways of writing the same name".
It's perfectly obvious that we need to write Hanako if mentioning this person in any language that doesn't use the original alphabet, because otherwise we would have no idea how to pronounce it.
Ricardo and Richard are two different names, only sharing an origin. If you argue that they are the same, then when Sean leaves Dublin he'll be renamed Ian while in Scotland and Jean in France. I would be told my real name is Catherine, or should that be Kathryn? Cross a border and I become Katrina? No thank you.
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Канада
Local time: 22:27
голландский => английский
+ ...
| Certified (or Sworn) translations | May 12, 2018 |
Daniel Frisano wrote:
Why can't the client change the name himself after receiving the translation? Can't he type?
A birth certificate must be certified to be used as a legal document. A certified translation must be true to the original wording and formatting. Once the translation is certified, i.e. it has the stamp and signature of the translator on it and is stapled together with the translator's declaration and a copy of the original document, any changes to it would make the document legally invalid.
If you're not qualified to certify it yourself, it must be stamped and signed by a justice of the peace, commissioner for oaths, court official or whoever provides that service in your county. This is something the translator needs to do, not the client; you 'swear an oath' that the translation is accurate. If you can't give it to the client directly or send it by post, scan it, so it can't be tampered with.
| | |
|
|
|
| You should refuse for obvious legal reasons. | May 12, 2018 |
A nickname is one thing, an official name is another. A birth certificate is an official legal document and bears the official legal name of its holder. Changing one's official name means using the official channels to do so : in most countries, this means applying to a court.
Furthermore, if you were to make a typing mistake with a client's name, a client acting in good faith would probably be furious. The fact that the client is making this request suggests nothing good. He is:... See more A nickname is one thing, an official name is another. A birth certificate is an official legal document and bears the official legal name of its holder. Changing one's official name means using the official channels to do so : in most countries, this means applying to a court.
Furthermore, if you were to make a typing mistake with a client's name, a client acting in good faith would probably be furious. The fact that the client is making this request suggests nothing good. He is:
- either quite stupid and unaware of the problems this would cause him;
- seeking to rely upon it and if ever it causes him a problem, he would be able to blame you for it;
- innocently (?*!) or wilfully asking you to be an accomplice to what is a criminal act.
If you are working in a country where you have obtained a certified translator status, accepting to make a change of this sort would cost you your status and probably land you up in court.
My final take on this? The fact that the client is asking you to do so, either through stupidity or criminal intent, he is instructing you to do something you have every reason NOT to do. Even if he says "Okay, forget it" now, I'd turn the job down. There's probably something very dodgy going on.
[Edited at 2018-05-12 16:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Канада
Local time: 22:27
голландский => английский
+ ...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:
My final take on this? The fact that the client is asking you to do so, either through stupidity or criminal intent, he is instructing you to do something you have every reason NOT to do. Even if he says "Okay, forget it" now, I'd turn the job down. There's probably something very dodgy going on.
[Edited at 2018-05-12 16:04 GMT]
That is not my impression Nikki. I think the client may be called Ricardo in the country where he lives now and his request may be just made out of ignorance. Whatever it is, I agree that the translator should refuse to change the name.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Украина
английский => русский
+ ...
| certified translation | May 13, 2018 |
As far as it's allegedly pretty ok to use clients' (even WRONG! and BAD!) TMs, glossaries, and preferences, so why the fuss?
In my country there was another fancy time of boredom when they OFFICIALLY changed the rules several times, so Natalya became Natalia, then Natalie, and even Natalka. When a client asked me to use Natalka in her immigration papers, I just (1) made sure she... See more As far as it's allegedly pretty ok to use clients' (even WRONG! and BAD!) TMs, glossaries, and preferences, so why the fuss?
In my country there was another fancy time of boredom when they OFFICIALLY changed the rules several times, so Natalya became Natalia, then Natalie, and even Natalka. When a client asked me to use Natalka in her immigration papers, I just (1) made sure she understood possible issues and (2) asked her to sign a legal disclaimer.
Of course, I kept the waiver for a year after immigration and it appears in the Land of Freedom they don't mind my respect to the client's wish)
[Edited at 2018-05-13 05:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sworn translators... | May 13, 2018 |
jyuan_us wrote: And in the USA, there is no such a thing as "sworn translation".
Whether there are sworn translators or certified translators or whatever in the USA is not the question. The question is that a name change is a legal act and it is not the job of the translator to do it. As far as I know, procedures and ease of a name change vary between jurisdictions.
| | |
|
|
|
Viviane Marx
Local time: 06:27
немецкий => португальский
+ ...
:
Teresa Borges wrote:
The question is that a name change is a legal act and it is not the job of the translator to do it. As far as I know, procedures and ease of a name change vary between jurisdictions.
| | | | jyuan_us
США
Local time: 00:27
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => китайский
+ ...
| It is not "name change" per se | May 13, 2018 |
Teresa Borges wrote: jyuan_us wrote: And in the USA, there is no such a thing as "sworn translation". Whether there are sworn translators or certified translators or whatever in the USA is not the question. The question is that a name change is a legal act and it is not the job of the translator to do it. As far as I know, procedures and ease of a name change vary between jurisdictions.
It is just having the name typed the Spanish way on the translation copy, which I thought must be used together with the original certificate. It is his original birth certificate that prevails.
[Edited at 2018-05-13 09:35 GMT]
[Edited at 2018-05-13 09:56 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
США
Local time: 00:27
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => китайский
+ ...
| A web-page for reference | May 13, 2018 |
On this page: http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/richard, Richard was kept in English in some cases, but replaced by Ricardo in other cases.
[Edited at 2018-05-13 11:18 GMT]
[Edited at 2018-05-13 11:32 GMT]
[Edited at 2018-05-13 11:33 GMT]
| | | | | Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3 4] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Birth certificate question: client requests name change in translation | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
