Muhammad Ikram Sep 18, 2012:

Last word I want to say sorry If anyone has been offended by my any word. I was just trying to present my arguments. I will just ask a question from all of Urdu translators; How would you like to translate the following term:
United States,
Option 1: امریکہ کی متحدہ ریاستیں ,
Option 2: ریاست ہائے متحدہ امریکہ
If your answer is 2, why would you prefer this to 1?
That's all. I wouldn't be coming back to comment further as the answer to this question will elaborate or negate my point. THANKS

Qudsia Lone Sep 18, 2012:

Language Capability v.s. Comprehension I'm posting my last comment with apologies to aburiaz sahib as he suggested we end this discussion. I felt compelled to say that I appreciate Ikram sahib's sentiments in defense of Urdu, but I don't think just because a term cannot be translated in another language in exactly the same format makes that language lacking in anyway. There are cultural nuances associated with words in every language. A translator's job in my humble opinion is to provide a translation that conveys the "intended" meaning to target audience. No matter how clever a term we come up with, it is practically useless if it does not convey the intended meaning to the target audience. For this reason, I don't see any harm in adding a word or two, if it aids in better comprehension of a concept. That is precisely the job entrusted to translators. Language does adapt and evolve with time, but I think we should use other resources like the media and other internet venues to forward our language "creation" aspirations.

Qudsia Lone Sep 18, 2012:

Language Capability v.s. Comprehension I'm posting my last comment with apologies to aburiaz sahib as he suggested we end this discussion. I felt compelled to say that I appreciate Ikram sahib's sentiments in defense of Urdu, but I don't think just because a term cannot be translated in another language in exactly the same format makes that language lacking in anyway. There are cultural nuances associated with words in every language. A translator's job in my humble opinion is to provide a translation that conveys the "intended" meaning to target audience. No matter how clever a term we come up with, it is practically useless if it does not convey the intended meaning to the target audience. For this reason, I don't see any harm in adding a word or two, if it aids in better comprehension of a concept. That is precisely the job entrusted to translators. Language does adapt and evolve with time, but I think we should use other resources like the media and other internet venues to forward our language "creation" aspirations.

abufaraz Sep 18, 2012:

Term Translation Well, the term was translated as a term. The second meaning was only given as an alternative of the same term so that the asker may choose whichever he likes.

IMO, the whole sentence has been translated by Qudsia Lone only to demonstrate the practical use of the term proposed by her.

Please allow me to say that the entries in this discussion contribute a lot towards increasing the knowledge of participants/members about the words and, in no way, 'proves that our language is not capable of standing with other developed languages of the world."

As the discussion is turning into 'کج بحثی', it is therefore suggested to close it here.

Muhammad Ikram Sep 18, 2012:

Term translation I think term should be translated as term not as a sentence. What you people are suggesting becomes "Harassment in the streets/harassment on the roads" which i think is not appropriate. Why are we bent on proving that our language is not capable of standing with other developed languages of the world?

abufaraz Sep 18, 2012:

Better Translation آپ نے کوزے میں دریا بند کر دیا ہے، قدسیہ جی، اور اس کے بعد اس ضمن میں مزید کچھ کہنے کی گنجائش باقی نہیں رہتی۔ میرے خیال میں ان الفاظ کی اس سے بڑھ کر وضاحت نہیں ہو سکتی۔

بے حد شکریہ

Qudsia Lone Sep 17, 2012:

سڑکوں پر چھیڑنا اور ہراساں کرنا Here's one English definition of the term I found on http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/about/what-is-street-har...
"Street harassment is any action or comment between strangers in public places that is disrespectful, unwelcome, threatening and/or harassing and is motivated by gender. In countries like India and Bangladesh, it’s termed “eve teasing,” and in countries like Egypt, it’s called “public sexual harassment.” Street harassment is a human rights issue because it limits women’s ability to be in public as often or as comfortably as most men."
I think Aburiaz sahib's term is a better one, but considering the range of actions defined by this explanation Ikram sahib's چھیر خانی also seems credible for the lesser actions. So I would suggest a combination as suggested in my title. Here it is as as sentence: سڑکوں پر چھیڑنا اور ہراساں کرنا دھمکی آمیز عمل ہے اور خوفزدہ کرتا ہے۔

abufaraz Sep 17, 2012:

Introduction of new words Completely agreed. There is no harm in introducing or transliterating a source word if there is no word available in the target language to represent the meanings. But if we do have the words already with us then, IMO, this practice appears to be unnecessary.

Muhammad Ikram Sep 17, 2012:

Creating new words Dear Aburiaz Sb! It is a pleasure that you have started this discussion and this trend should be encouraged. Everything should be openly discussed as we are going to define language in the next era. Although my term is not a new creation, it is a new form of already existing word under the strict rules of grammar.
You are absolutely right regarding the authenticity and usage of dictionary. But here are two problems
1. Our language is not used in modern human knowledge disciplines. Contemporary writers(both in fiction and non fiction mostly transliterate) don't bother to introduce new terms in the language.
2. Even If some are introduced they are not included in the dictionaries. Specially our local publishers don't bother to update new editions.
So I think we being translators should fulfill this duty as we are mostly converting new knowledge into our language. For those who are working on the Localization of Microsoft products are aware of this problem as IT is the most advanced and least considered discipline in our country.
It is not up to to the pundits of language to introduce new words and terms, I mean why can't we or any other introduce new words.

abufaraz Sep 17, 2012:

Dictionaries Thanks for your reply, Mr. Ikram. I don’t want to argue but I do have reservations with respect to creating new words on ‘as per need basis’. If dictionaries are not to be considered as a reference to ascertain its authenticity, then why these are published and in so many numbers.
Colleagues are invited to please discuss. ! صلائے عام ہے یاران نکتہ داں کے لئے