Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

soured on

Spanish translation:

se ha desencantado / se desencantó / ha perdido la estima por / se habla de la desafección de

Added to glossary by Robert Forstag
Nov 30, 2017 16:44
6 yrs ago
5 viewers *
English term

Discussion

Chema Nieto Castañón Dec 3, 2017:
@Robert Forstag Hi Robert!
I fully understand the sense of the English expression. In Spanish though it is not so usual (in this context) to be as clear as for the subject or the reason of such a negative change in attitude; we would usually leave that open -reason why so many of our answers here do avoid specifying that Trump is the one who actually changed his mind about Tillerson, and not the other way around, leaving that implicit.

Now, if you want to be literal with that, "se ha agriado el sentir de Trump" or "la desafección de Trump por Tillerson" might work. The problem with desencantar is that this verb might not express just a change of feeling/attitude as it allows the interpretation that Tillerson might have done something wrong. It is a little bit like defraudar (although not as clear or strong); I feel defraudado only because you have done something that did not meet my expectations.

In this particular context you might well read that Tillerson did something for Trump to be desencantado con él -reason why I would not use desencantar to translate soured on.

Hope I was clear now on what I meant to say!
(which does not mean that I am necessarily right!)

Saludos!
Robert Forstag (asker) Dec 2, 2017:
@Saltasebes "Se ha desencantado con" here would really only describe Trump's attitude toward Tillerson. The latter may be a treacherous scoundrel thoroughly worthy of the newly negative attitude, or a saint who has been unjustly maligned. The same applies to "soured" in English. If I say that "my attitude toward you has soured" that is a statement about my changed feelings about you, and in and of itself says absolutely nothing about you.

This is one of the reasons why I think "desencantarse" is a good translation of "soured," as I explained in the comment accompanying my grading. The other main reason is that several of the other suggestions made it sound like the two men simply had a falling out, and did not accurately reflect the negative change in Trump's attitude that is patent in the term "soured on."
Chema Nieto Castañón Dec 2, 2017:
Or
Se habla de la reciente desafección de Trump...
Making it explicit that Trump has just changed the way he feels about Tillerson.
Chema Nieto Castañón Dec 2, 2017:
Just for the sake of argument, I would say that it is true that "relación deteriorada", "ya no sintoniza", "se ha distanciado" or the like, even though these clearly convey the idea that Trump's attitude toward Tillerson has changed for the worse, may allow some reasonable explanation for that change (were you not to know anything about Trump!).

And while I fully agree with your understanding of the more literal "agriarse" here (although it may work after all; Se dice que se ha agriado el sentir de Trump por Tillerson), I would say that "desencantarse" is not the best option. It sounds as if Tillerson had dissapointed Trump or let him down. The Spanish expression does actually put the weight of guilt on Tillerson!

"Perder la estima por" is quite at it, although it sounds a bit "light" for "soured on"; perder la estima o el aprecio por Tillerson sounds a bit too sweet in this context.

"La desafección" (as "la condición de mostrar hacia alguien desvío o indiferencia") may work just a bit better; Se habla de la desafección de Trump por Tillerson, según informa el NYT, aunque...

Well, just thinking aloud.
Saludos! Y buen finde!
Chema Nieto Castañón Dec 1, 2017:
Desafección Otra opción.
Se dice que ha crecido la desafección de Trump por Tillerson / Se habla de la desafección de Trump por Tillerson...
Por opciones que no sea ;)

Proposed translations

49 mins
Selected

se ha desencantado / se desencantó

¡Gracias, Robert!

el NYT reporta que el Sr. Trump se ha desencantado / se desencantó con el Sr. Tillerson

El yogui y el maya - Revista Semana
www.semana.com/vida-moderna/articulo/el-yogui-maya/72816-3
Se dijo que Trump ya venía molesto con el Secretario de Estado por rumores de deslealtad por parte del servicio exterior. Además ... El comportamiento del señor Trump, añadió el editorialista, “sólo ha servido para debilitar al Sr. Tillerson y levantar dudas entre los líderes mundiales acerca de si el refleja las verdaderas ...

Elena - Página 54 -
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1597542628
Isabel Maria Ecenarro Whitmarsh - 2007 - ‎Fiction
Se habría desencantado? Tal vez, ella no le gustaba tanto ―pen- saba. Trató de alejar la imagen y descansar. Conocería a otras personas, se divertiría y estudiaría, que fue a lo que vino ...
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I came across this term yesterday reading the cited article and felt stumped as to how it might be translated into Spanish. To me, the main idea that needs to be conveyed is that Trump’s attitude toward Tillerson, which had previously been positive, had turned negative. For this reason, solutions such as “se ha deteriorado,” “ya no sintoniza,” and “se ha distanciado” really do not work. These options allow the interpretation that the relationship has deteriorated as a result of some difference of opinion or philosophy, when the clear meaning of the English is that Trump’s attitude toward Tillerson has changed for the worse. In this light, “agriarse” is an interesting option. The problem is that it does not seem to be commonly used as an intransitive verb *to convey one’s attitude toward another person*. Thus, while “Juan se agrió” or “La relación entre Juan y Pablo se agrió” make sense, “Juan se agrió con Pablo” apparently does not (or, in any event, does not represent standard usage). And the problem here with “La relacion….se agrió” is that it does not convey the core idea of the source that Trump’s attitude turned negative. This leaves three possibilities: “la desafección de…,” “se ha perdido la estma por” and “se ha desencantado con.” I think that all of these are good, although I somewhat prefer “se ha desencantado con” because it seems to more accurately convey the emotional charge of the English “soured.” Many thanks to all who offered suggestions to and commented on this post. "
+1
15 mins

se dice que ha perdido la estima por

Una posibilidad
Peer comment(s):

agree Mónica Algazi
1 hr
Something went wrong...
18 mins

Su relación se ha enfriado ' ha perdido el interés

Something went wrong...
19 mins

está resentido con / se ha agriado la relación con

Otras opciones
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Se rumorea que...ya no sintoniza con / ha perdido la química con

Hola Robert: todas las opciones propuestas son buenas. Añado un par de ideas.

Titular
- "Se rumorea que el Sr. Trump ya no sintoniza con el Sr. Tillerson"

- "Se rumorea que el Sr Trump ha perdido la química con el Sr. Tillerson"

Texto
- "Según informa el NYT, corren rumores de que el Sr. Trump ya no sintoniza con el Sr. Tillerson"
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

Corre el rumor que Mr. Trump se ha distanciado de Mr. Tillerson

También: Se dice que la relación entre Mr. Trump y Mr. Tillerson se ha deteriorado.

HTH
Something went wrong...
9 hrs

se dice que se agrió / la relación se tornó agria

Even though it is a literal translation from the English sentence, it is commonly used in Spanish. the term "Agriar" is defined by the Royal Spanish Academy as "To exasperate wills or moods" which is precisely what the article is implying on the relationship
Something went wrong...
17 hrs

se dice que la relación entre Trump y (o respecto a) Tillerson se ha vuelto tensa

Otra opción
Something went wrong...
7 hrs

se dice que su relación se ha deteriorado

Una opción más que suena natural en castellano.

Mr Trump is said to have soured on Mr Tillerson, the New York Times reports, but it is unclear whether he has approved the plan to oust him.
Se dice que la relación de Trump con Tillerson se ha deteriorado, según informa el NYT, aunque no está claro si Trump ha aprobado el plan para deponerlo.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2017-12-01 11:28:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Aunque el deterioro de la relación entre ambos me parece la forma más natural de expresarlo, si quisieras hacer incapié en el hecho de que el desafecto es de Trump hacia Tillerson y no al revés -algo que parece obvio en la versión previa en castellano en cualquier caso, dado el tipo de relación jerárquica entre ambos- podrías utilizar desafecto / desafección para expresar soured on.

Por ejemplo,
Se habla de la desafección de Trump por Tillerson, según informa el NYT, aunque...
Se dice que ha crecido la desafección de Trump por Tillerson...
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

12 mins
Reference:

el NYT reporta que el Sr. Trump se habría desencantado con el Sr. Tillerson

El yogui y el maya - Revista Semana
www.semana.com/vida-moderna/articulo/el-yogui-maya/72816-3
Se dijo que Trump ya venía molesto con el Secretario de Estado por rumores de deslealtad por parte del servicio exterior. Además ... El comportamiento del señor Trump, añadió el editorialista, “sólo ha servido para debilitar al Sr. Tillerson y levantar dudas entre los líderes mundiales acerca de si el refleja las verdaderas ...

Elena - Page 54 -
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1597542628
Isabel Maria Ecenarro Whitmarsh - 2007 - ‎Fiction
Se habría desencantado? Tal vez, ella no le gustaba tanto ―pen- saba. Trató de alejar la imagen y descansar. Conocería a otras personas, se divertiría y estudiaría, que fue a lo que vino ...
Note from asker:
Gracias, Andrés. Conviene que propongas “se ha desencantado” o “se desencantó” como traducción.
Something went wrong...
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