| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | ProZ.com job postings: translation versus MTPE Thread poster: Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
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Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 18:31
Polish to English
+ ...
Plenty of fake translation jobs are being published in ProZ.
The title is attractively disguised into "translation" while the content of the "job" turns out to be PTME in various firms.
This is cheating on the prospective contracters.
Add to this a number of offers shouting about dozillions of words, long-term, prospective, etc.
And this trend seems to prevail and gains in momentum.
I don't like it.
I subscribed here and paid quite a sum in the hope of ... See more Plenty of fake translation jobs are being published in ProZ.
The title is attractively disguised into "translation" while the content of the "job" turns out to be PTME in various firms.
This is cheating on the prospective contracters.
Add to this a number of offers shouting about dozillions of words, long-term, prospective, etc.
And this trend seems to prevail and gains in momentum.
I don't like it.
I subscribed here and paid quite a sum in the hope of REAL translation jobs.
Instead, the jobs forum is flooded with that "thing" which has nothing to do with translation.
The flooding of legitimate translation jobs with PTME has an impact. For one, whenever I see a nice attractive title, I immediately presume it to be a disguised PTME. And I am right in 99% cases. Therefore, I increasingly am losing interest in checking the offers altogether. Waste of time.
You know what will come next. If this thing continues, I am sure I will not extend membership.
So the question to the Proz Staff: isn't it time to split the content of the site into 1) Real translation (+ bans for authors of fake offers) and 2) PTME things? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 18:31
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Some examples? | Jun 27, 2022 |
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
The title is attractively disguised into "translation" while the content of the "job" turns out to be PTME in various firms. ... For one, whenever I see a nice attractive title, I immediately presume it to be a disguised PTME.
Can you tell us the most recent 10 such titles?
| | | | Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 18:31
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Current examples as at 16.00 | Jun 27, 2022 |
Samuel, I am sorry, you need to find these examples on your own. I am reminded by the staff that giving opinions about the content of the portal is forbidden by the rules of the site.
https://www.proz.com/translation-jobs/***
*** does it more often. 1m words, wow.
... See more Samuel, I am sorry, you need to find these examples on your own. I am reminded by the staff that giving opinions about the content of the portal is forbidden by the rules of the site.
https://www.proz.com/translation-jobs/***
*** does it more often. 1m words, wow.
https://www.proz.com/translation-jobs/***
https://www.proz.com/translation-jobs/***
https://www.proz.com/translation-jobs/***
https://www.proz.com/translation-jobs/***
5 out of 10 are openly declared as MTPE. No fakes this time.
This is only from my homepage that is set up for CS, DE, EN and PL, where DE-EN should be a valid major portion of the market.
Plus various variants of *** vendors, which is an *** "job" in itself, at least the way some vendors present it (tried it).
Plus a number of "jobs" looks like attempts to collect data/addresses of translators. This comes in waves, now and then.
All in all, the "Translation jobs" section looks like a basket with everything related to languages, and not translations. This was not the case, say, one year ago.
I get it, machine systems gradually take over the land and cut out everything that stands in their way. But overpopulating a translation marketplace with MTPE, which is both competitive to and killing the translation realm?...
[Edited at 2022-06-27 17:55 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-06-27 18:40 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-06-27 19:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:31
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
I get it, machine systems gradually take over the land and cut out everything that stands in their way. But overpopulating a translation marketplace with MTPE, which is both competitive to and killing the translation realm?...
I agree and I think that more generally, Proz needs to upgrade itself to take account of how the translation market has changed, by putting more emphasis on high-quality human translation.
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Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 12:31
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Snowball's chance | Jun 27, 2022 |
Tom in London wrote:
Proz needs to upgrade itself to take account of how the translation market has changed, by putting more emphasis on high-quality human translation.
I somehow don't see this happening....
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 12:31
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Organization to represent translators | Jun 27, 2022 |
If only we had an organization that would support human translators!
| | | | Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 18:31
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Translators have been historically freelancers, so there was no need to set up any trade union. In the long run, this came to be a disadvantage when the internet changed work (in any field) into MMA-like marketplace.
Maybe this is the beauty of this profession. Anyone can get hired as a translator by a smaller or bigger shark. Not anyone can manage as a freelancer, especially when clients expect professional knowledge (completely unnecessary in MTPE).
In the end, we are left ... See more Translators have been historically freelancers, so there was no need to set up any trade union. In the long run, this came to be a disadvantage when the internet changed work (in any field) into MMA-like marketplace.
Maybe this is the beauty of this profession. Anyone can get hired as a translator by a smaller or bigger shark. Not anyone can manage as a freelancer, especially when clients expect professional knowledge (completely unnecessary in MTPE).
In the end, we are left with being "right but without decent jobs" - which I personally attribute largely to clicking (aka post-editing). Clicking does not even require the knowledge of either language, especially in expanded systems that offer a number of ready-made hints.
We just need to be aware of the changes in the milieu. And accommodate. Or find another job.
And I am not qualifying whether clicking is good or bad. It clearly is immensely profitable for developers of the so called engines. It also clearly is helpful to old-school translators who know what they are writing about. It clearly removes a number of burdens. However, it also removes options and choices, which in principle is clearly bad and wrong.
Funny enough, clients come with complaints that machin-ed translations did not satisfy their quality expectations. So now they have to pay full price for real translation - which they had been lied to would be unnecessary, costly and time-consuming...
The question is: why portals (portals, not users) for professional translators do not openly discuss this matter? Or, a better one: why portals for translation professionals do not advocate in favour of real human translators? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | "Translation" and "MT post-editing" are already presented as separate services | Jun 28, 2022 |
Hello everyone,
If you check the job posting form as well as your profile updater, you will see that both services are separated as "translation" and "MT post-editing". This means that, when a client posts a job, they can select MT post-editing as the required service, translation, or even ... See more Hello everyone,
If you check the job posting form as well as your profile updater, you will see that both services are separated as "translation" and "MT post-editing". This means that, when a client posts a job, they can select MT post-editing as the required service, translation, or even both.
This also means that freelancers will be notified of those jobs depending on whether those services are reported in their profiles or not. The same applies to quoting access. Only those with the corresponding service(s) reported in their profiles will be allowed to quote.
Finally, when browsing jobs, you can quickly filter by service type using the different services on top of the page. However, if you encounter any translation job that is clearly an MT post-editing job, just report it to site staff using the [Report this job to site staff] at the bottom of the job page. This will help us to look into it and take appropriate action if needed.
Last, but not least. Please keep in mind that the main source of client contact is the directory, and not the jobs system. In other words, site members meet more clients directly via the directory (by being contacted by them after they conduct a specific directory search) than the clients they meet for quoting on jobs. This is so because, while in the job posting section outsourcers may post any type of job, even calls for CVs, when they conduct a search in the directory it is because they have a clearer idea of what they need and, most importantly, a real job in hand for translators to start working on immediately. Also, this direct contact allows freelancers to negotiate rates better, as opposed to quoting a given rate and competing with other freelancers' rates at the same time. You may check this page for further details.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I just thought the clarifications above may be useful.
Have a good night!
Lucia ▲ Collapse
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Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 18:31
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Misunderstanding + mixup versus intentions | Jun 29, 2022 |
When I created the title for this thread, it was intentional.
Plus means that both parts are needed.
Versus means war (the scale depends on the capacity of the person using this word).
The original post was to incite attention of users + staff.
The attention IS needed, because some "vendors" hijack the "translation" name to push their post-editing jobs. It is deception. You can find it in many posts.
As it is deception, we (users, translators) waste t... See more When I created the title for this thread, it was intentional.
Plus means that both parts are needed.
Versus means war (the scale depends on the capacity of the person using this word).
The original post was to incite attention of users + staff.
The attention IS needed, because some "vendors" hijack the "translation" name to push their post-editing jobs. It is deception. You can find it in many posts.
As it is deception, we (users, translators) waste time ckecking / reading posts that are completely out of our interests.
Now...
Now the censorship of the staff RENAMES the post title.
1. Why? Any reasons? Any justifications? NOPE.
2. What do have in the result?
Instead of a trigger to make a relevant inquiry into the matter, the post has turned into a futile "discussion" between the posters: which is better, whom do you love more.
Mind you, this is the site for translators, so - I assume - eberybody here writes exactly what they want and intend to write. Otherwise, the point is missing.
Here, the point has been missed utterly.
To put it simply: somebody, without contacting me (a paying user), altered my utterance. They know better than I do what I want to say.
What a disregard.
A quote from a movie comes to mind: "What is wrong with you, people?" ▲ Collapse
| | | | Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 18:31
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | clarification | Jun 29, 2022 |
@ Lucia Leszinsky
The original post was to emphasise a malpractice among outsourcers: hijacking ProZ space for translation for their MTPE offers.
It's not about the structure of the portal, but about lack of clear-cut separation of the expected scope of work.
Also, there are many "jobs" offered that have nothing to do with the actual translation. Their sole intent is to collect addresses and create databases. This is all over the place, not only in ProZ.... See more @ Lucia Leszinsky
The original post was to emphasise a malpractice among outsourcers: hijacking ProZ space for translation for their MTPE offers.
It's not about the structure of the portal, but about lack of clear-cut separation of the expected scope of work.
Also, there are many "jobs" offered that have nothing to do with the actual translation. Their sole intent is to collect addresses and create databases. This is all over the place, not only in ProZ.
I am sure with a simple programming you (ProZ) can:
1. require vendors to behave honestly
2. modify job listings into separate parts of the portal, subportals, or even separate websites (translation + MTPE)
Mixing the two clearly increases the score of the site (so many job offers), but is counterproductive for translators or MTPEs.
Besides, it would be nice to know the actual numbers: what is the percentage of true translations among all jobs?
This is an important information for us (contractors) to indicate how the market evolves and what we can do to flow with the stream.
If the portal administration does not disclose this information from translators, more and more responses to offers will be misaligned. Then, more and more outsourcers will be disappointed. And then ProZ will no longer be needed, which is not a nice poerspective. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 18:31
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| If only they would | Jun 29, 2022 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote: Hello everyone, If you check the job posting form as well as your profile updater, you will see that both services are separated as "translation" and "MT post-editing". This means that, when a client posts a job, they can select MT post-editing as the required service, translation, or even both.
Thank you for the clarification, Lucia. The problem is that many outsourcers simply don't mark their projects as MTPE, thus leading interested translators to believe that a translation is being requested.
I can't think of any feasible way to get them to make the correct choice. Any ideas?
[Edited at 2022-06-29 07:30 GMT]
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Thayenga wrote:
I can't think of any feasible way to get them to make the correct choice. Any ideas?
[Edited at 2022-06-29 07:30 GMT]
Translators report mislabelled MTPE jobs and the agency gets a warning. Three strikes and they’re out.
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Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. (X)
Local time: 18:31
Polish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | A very simple solution | Jun 29, 2022 |
When posting a job, an option is provided to check the job type:
- Translation/editing/proofing job
- Potential job
- Interpreting job
The programmer for the ProZ site needs to add ONE line of code to split the first item into:
- Translation
- Editing
- Proofing
- MTPE
Please note that Editing is not equal to MTPE and is justly given as a separate task.
Combining the first item (as it is now) is outdated and deviate... See more When posting a job, an option is provided to check the job type:
- Translation/editing/proofing job
- Potential job
- Interpreting job
The programmer for the ProZ site needs to add ONE line of code to split the first item into:
- Translation
- Editing
- Proofing
- MTPE
Please note that Editing is not equal to MTPE and is justly given as a separate task.
Combining the first item (as it is now) is outdated and deviates from the actual market offers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Misuse of the site, including the job posting service, should be reported to site staff | Jun 29, 2022 |
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
Now the censorship of the staff RENAMES the post title.
1. Why? Any reasons? Any justifications? NOPE.
When posting a new topic, it is clearly stated that "Staff members may edit your heading." This is so to make it easier for other users to find the tread in the future. That's all.
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
The original post was to emphasise a malpractice among outsourcers: hijacking ProZ space for translation for their MTPE offers.
It's not about the structure of the portal, but about lack of clear-cut separation of the expected scope of work.
Also, there are many "jobs" offered that have nothing to do with the actual translation. Their sole intent is to collect addresses and create databases. This is all over the place, not only in ProZ.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood your idea, Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. , but your opening post says:
Plenty of fake translation jobs are being published in ProZ.
That's why I focused my reply on what happens in the ProZ.com jobs system and how you could act in front of these offers.
In any case, if the issue is, as Thayenga clearly describes, that outsourcers post MTPE jobs as translation jobs, part of Ice Scream's suggestion is correct: report it to site staff. Misuse of the job posting system may result in restrictions. Re-categorizing jobs would not simply require the addition of a line of code. The separation of job types and services is a complex system that has been in place for some time now and affects not only jobs, but several other services (profiles, directories, email, project history, etc.)
I will take a closer look at these jobs in the next few days. But, please, submit a support request if you encounter one of those jobs in which they select "translation" as a service when in fact they are looking for MTPE. Thanks!
Lucia
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 18:31
French to English
Multiverse Solutions s.r.o. wrote:
The programmer for the ProZ site needs to add ONE line of code to split the first item into:
- Translation
- Editing
- Proofing
- MTPE
I would change that to
- Human translation
- Editing human translation
- Proofing human translation
- MTPE
Just to make it absolutely clear, then any work advertised in the wrong section is obviously a matter of bad faith.
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