| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Is the Proz Certified P now being equated with credentials? Thread poster: writeaway
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John Rawlins 
Spain
Local time: 21:22
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Adds some kind of value | May 21, 2009 |
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:
The order and wording of these choices means that a new user, for example a direct client, is likely to assume a PRO certificate adds some kind of value.
Yes, I believe that a new user is likely to assume that a PRO certificate adds some kind of value.
Madeleine – Do you believe that a PRO certificate adds no value?
[Edited at 2009-05-21 19:30 GMT]
| | | | Giles Watson
Italy
Local time: 21:22
Italian to English
In memoriam
Hi John, Madeleine and everyone,
In an ideal world, these qualifications would be set in some sort of perspective.
To start with, any outsourcer who looks for very basic, generic qualifications such as degrees or other distinctions probably hasn't really profiled his or her ideal translator particularly well, or doesn't need to: in other words, price is probably as much of a factor as proficiency.
Otherwise, a documented track record of competent translatio... See more Hi John, Madeleine and everyone,
In an ideal world, these qualifications would be set in some sort of perspective.
To start with, any outsourcer who looks for very basic, generic qualifications such as degrees or other distinctions probably hasn't really profiled his or her ideal translator particularly well, or doesn't need to: in other words, price is probably as much of a factor as proficiency.
Otherwise, a documented track record of competent translation in the appropriate sector would be rather more important. Obviously, though, experience and other qualifications are even better
The value of degrees, professional qualifications and Proz certification is dependent on the parameters applied by the certifying body. Proz certification, for example, is currently not all that impressive but it is likely to become more influential as the community grows and more peer reviews are filed.
I think it would be helpful if Proz could provide outsourcers with succinct summaries of the evaluation process for each of the certifying bodies it recognises, and of its own criteria.
FWIW
Giles ▲ Collapse
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John Rawlins wrote:
Madeleine – Do you believe that a PRO certificate adds no value?
Since my daytime job is in marketing, I'm somewhat dubious of any "award", or in this case "certification", that you can buy. Whenever you see a company receiving some kind of "award", please check who paid for the champagne at the award ceremony.
Since only paid-up members of ProZ can get this certification, there is a certain element of buying here. Add to that that there's been a number of previous threads about how rigorous the certification process is.
That's not to say that most individuals with a P aren't highly professional. From my experience they mostly are; I have my own reasons for not applying.
So the simple answer, is no.
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How did my first posting end here as well?
[Edited at 2009-05-21 20:35 GMT]
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| This is exactly the problem | May 21, 2009 |
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:
The order and wording of these choices means that a new user, for example a direct client, is likely to assume a PRO certificate adds some kind of value. Yes, I can see the "or", but how many potential clients will do the same?
Will the customers be able to distinguish?
| | | | John Rawlins
Spain
Local time: 21:22
Spanish to English
+ ...
| May I express my envy | May 21, 2009 |
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:
Since only paid-up members of ProZ can get this certification, there is a certain element of buying here. Add to that that there's been a number of previous threads about how rigorous the certification process is.
Of course, no student of translation can be considered as somebody who may have somehow bought his or her degree. Moreover, all holders of translation degrees from all universities are equally notable for their excellence and diligence.
Well Madeleine - I take my hat off to you. May I express my envy at the very fine view you must enjoy from such a high horse.
| | | | | Sorry we can't be friends! | May 21, 2009 |
The Misha wrote:
... still cannot do the job, if one is to judge by the oft-ridiculous KudoZ questions regularly posted by these "professionals". Thanks but no, thanks, I'd rather not be bundled together under the same designation with any of those.
I am Certified PRO and encourage you to check whether my Kudoz questions are ridiculous and whether I post questions regularly (asked 22 questions in 7 years; answered 2200 questions in the same time; was chosen as most helpful in 60% of cases). Most Certified PRO people I know in my language pairs answer questions and very rarely ask something.
I think you probably got carried away with this. Maybe you wanted to say "...sometimes posted by SOME of these "professionals"..."? Please do not put all people in the same bag. I won't put you in a bag of "anti-Certified PRO"!
| | | | | And that horse would be? | May 21, 2009 |
John Rawlins wrote:
Of course, no student of translation can be considered as somebody who may have somehow bought his or her degree. Moreover, all holders of translation degrees from all universities are equally notable for their excellence and diligence.
Well Madeleine - I take my hat off to you. May I express my envy at the very fine view you must enjoy from such a high horse.
Please John, I do not in anyway "look down" on anyone and haven't sat on any kind of horse for 30+ years.
If you care have a look at my profile you'll find that I am in no way a "student of translation". I do, however, have a degree in English with a very short module in translation theory.
This is a degree I completed quite a few years after starting my career as a translator. And in a country where there are, as yet, no tuition fees.
Now, what was your point?
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| The Devil is in the details - did anybody notice? | May 21, 2009 |
Again, if one takes 2 minutes to check out the job posting form (not forum) here:
http://www.proz.com/?sp=jobs&sp_mode=post&type=translation&view=advanced, one would see the little blue balloons with question marks that provide a short explanation about "Credentials" and the choices for anybody navigating the page, including (supposedly ignorant) outsourcers.
Yes, we can star... See more Again, if one takes 2 minutes to check out the job posting form (not forum) here:
http://www.proz.com/?sp=jobs&sp_mode=post&type=translation&view=advanced, one would see the little blue balloons with question marks that provide a short explanation about "Credentials" and the choices for anybody navigating the page, including (supposedly ignorant) outsourcers.
Yes, we can start picking on the wording, and even start discussing whether the "or" in the first option is clear enough to make it straightforward that it is a "permissive or" (must have one of the two) or is it possible, that someone, somewhere, sometime would understand it as an "exclusive or" (must have one of the two and only one)???
At the same time, I am surprised that NOBODY picked up on another (IMHO very important) detail.
See the options again:
For "Professional credentials", the three options are:
Must have reported credentials or a Certified PRO certificate.
Must have reported credentials
Not required
Nothing to pick on?
Let's see again:
Must have reported credentials or a Certified PRO certificate.
Must have reported credentials
Not required
Now, how about that?
Reported credentials are just that - people report their credentials. (Whatever they think a credential is...)
The point is that "reported credentials" are not all verified. In fact, only a fraction of reported credentials are verified by ProZ.com's staff.
As far as I know, the Certified Pro program requires its participants to put all their reported credentials through the verification process. People are being asked to remove non-verified credentials from their profiles.
Given these, if I am an outsourcer that believes in the value of credentials, which of the three options should I select?
[Edited to make the URL clickable.]
[Edited at 2009-05-21 21:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 22:22
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
| Pardon me, I will skip horses | May 21, 2009 |
John Rawlins wrote:
Of course, no student of translation can be considered as somebody who may have somehow bought his or her degree. Moreover, all holders of translation degrees from all universities are equally notable for their excellence and diligence.
Well Madeleine - I take my hat off to you. May I express my envy at the very fine view you must enjoy from such a high horse.
I believe the value of such "certifications" was discussed ad nauseam in the past (also on other matters and in another threads - say, can any commercial site - defining itself as a "VENUE" or "a meeting place" hand out badges of "Trados" (or Excel, Word, Photoshop, you name it) certified and place it among mandatory requirements for bidding on the job.
And please let's not be overoptimistic about client's education - while being jobs moderator, I have seen quite a lot of job postings, where mandatory requirement for interpreter was "Trados Certified".
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo wrote:
Now, what was your point?
Yeah, what was it?
Uldis
| | | | | Closing the thread | May 22, 2009 |
Given that the original topic seems to have been addressed, and discussions appears to be drifting in a less positive direction, I am closing the thread.
Thank you.
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