Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Hebrew term or phrase:
רוע הגזירה
English translation:
harsh verdict, cruel decree
Added to glossary by
Mary Jane Shubow
Jul 4, 2009 18:31
14 yrs ago
6 viewers *
Hebrew term
רונית סגל
רוע הגזירה
Non-PRO
Hebrew to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
כיצד מתרגמים את הביטוי לאנגלית?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | harsh verdict, cruel decree |
Mary Jane Shubow
|
| 5 +1 | the evil of the decree |
Textpertise
|
| 4 | bad news |
Michal Circolone
|
| 3 | the weight of the punishment |
Lingopro
|
Change log
Jul 21, 2009 14:09: Mary Jane Shubow Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
9 hrs
Mary Jane Shubow
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Related KudoZ points
:
32
Selected
harsh verdict, cruel decree
The most idiomatic way to translate this is harsh verdict or cruel decree. Evil decree is also appropriate but in English would be used only for very dramatic circumstances, whereas the expression רוע הגזירה is commonly used to indicate that one thinks a verdict is too harsh or cruel for the matter at hand.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2009-07-05 04:36:47 GMT)
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The spelling הגזירה is correct and the yod is OK. When using nikud, as in dictionaries, the yod may be omitted, but when nikud is not used, as is usually the case, the yod should be used.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2009-07-05 04:41:51 GMT)
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When referring to רוע הגזירה as in the Yom Kippur prayer, evil decree may be appropriate, but when it is used in the context of a child whose parents decided not to buy him a dog, as in the second example above, harsh verdict seems more appropriate to me.
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Note added at 21 hrs (2009-07-05 15:33:54 GMT)
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Depending on the emphasis, the syntax can be more closely aligned to the original Hebrew -- the cruelty/harshness/severity/evil of the verdict/decree. I found two different translations for that part of the Utaneh Tokef on the Web: the severity of the decree and the evil decree.
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Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2009-07-05 21:59:29 GMT)
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While I agree that smichut is more appropriate for the Yom Kippur context, I still would prefer the severity of the decree instead of the evil of the degree in that context, but both are fine. In general, I was just trying to say that there are different ways that this can be translated, depending on the context and the issue at hand. If I could, at this point, I would change my confidence level to absolutely sure.
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Note added at 10 hrs (2009-07-05 04:36:47 GMT)
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The spelling הגזירה is correct and the yod is OK. When using nikud, as in dictionaries, the yod may be omitted, but when nikud is not used, as is usually the case, the yod should be used.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2009-07-05 04:41:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
When referring to רוע הגזירה as in the Yom Kippur prayer, evil decree may be appropriate, but when it is used in the context of a child whose parents decided not to buy him a dog, as in the second example above, harsh verdict seems more appropriate to me.
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Note added at 21 hrs (2009-07-05 15:33:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Depending on the emphasis, the syntax can be more closely aligned to the original Hebrew -- the cruelty/harshness/severity/evil of the verdict/decree. I found two different translations for that part of the Utaneh Tokef on the Web: the severity of the decree and the evil decree.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day3 hrs (2009-07-05 21:59:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
While I agree that smichut is more appropriate for the Yom Kippur context, I still would prefer the severity of the decree instead of the evil of the degree in that context, but both are fine. In general, I was just trying to say that there are different ways that this can be translated, depending on the context and the issue at hand. If I could, at this point, I would change my confidence level to absolutely sure.
Example sentence:
ברק: אבקש מספרד לבטל רוע הגזירה
עם תמיכה חיצונית, אוכל לשנות את רוע הגזירה שגזרו עלי הורי. בסה\
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
6 mins
Michal Circolone
United States
United States
Native in Hebrew
&
English
Specializes in field
United States
Accuracy & Proficiency
Native in: English 
, Hebrew
Works in: Hebrew to English, English to Hebrew
Related KudoZ points
:
16
bad news
Bad news comes to mind.
27 mins
Hebrew term (edited):
רוע הגזרה
the weight of the punishment
I think "decree of justice" can also be used.
By the way, I changed the spelling of גזרה (should be without the Yod)
By the way, I changed the spelling of גזרה (should be without the Yod)
Reference:
http://dictionary.sensagent.com/decree/en-en/
http://www.babylon.com/definition/%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A2_%D7%94%D7%92%D7%96%D7%A8%D7%94/English
+1
6 hrs
Textpertise
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Highest WWA rating in Europe for NL-EN
Native in: English 
Works in: Dutch to English, Hebrew to English
Related KudoZ points
:
88
the evil of the decree
This term features in the famous Unetane Tokef prayer which occurs in the Chazzan's repetition of the Amidah on Yom Kippur and climaxes with the words .ותשובה ותפילה וצדקה מעבירין את רע הגזרה
The ArtScroll Hebrew/English Machzor translates this: But repentance, prayer and charity remove the evil of the decree. Of course, there are other Machzorim which will translate it slightly differently but the ArtScroll is one of the most respected worldwide and I think you won't go wrong by adopting this translation.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2009-07-05 00:43:02 GMT)
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The system seems to have messed up the Hebrew sentence above: It should read:
ותשובה ותפילה וצדקה מעבירין את רע הגזרה
with no full stop after רע
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2009-07-05 19:49:50 GMT)
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Much is made in the commentaries on the Yom Kippur passage of the fact that it does not avert the evil or harsh decree but ameliorates the evil OF the decree. The use of Smichut also supports this. It does not say
הגזרה הרעה. If it said that, then a translation of "evil or harsh decree" would be sustainable. The term is given as רוע הגזירה, which is speaking of something appertaining to or a quality of the גזירה, namely its evil or harshness. Therefore, imho, the evil OF the decree would be more correct.
The ArtScroll Hebrew/English Machzor translates this: But repentance, prayer and charity remove the evil of the decree. Of course, there are other Machzorim which will translate it slightly differently but the ArtScroll is one of the most respected worldwide and I think you won't go wrong by adopting this translation.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2009-07-05 00:43:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The system seems to have messed up the Hebrew sentence above: It should read:
ותשובה ותפילה וצדקה מעבירין את רע הגזרה
with no full stop after רע
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Note added at 1 day1 hr (2009-07-05 19:49:50 GMT)
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Much is made in the commentaries on the Yom Kippur passage of the fact that it does not avert the evil or harsh decree but ameliorates the evil OF the decree. The use of Smichut also supports this. It does not say
הגזרה הרעה. If it said that, then a translation of "evil or harsh decree" would be sustainable. The term is given as רוע הגזירה, which is speaking of something appertaining to or a quality of the גזירה, namely its evil or harshness. Therefore, imho, the evil OF the decree would be more correct.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Mary Jane Shubow
: I agee that the smichut is more appropriate for Yom Kippur.
20 hrs
|
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