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3 fatal errors to avoid when you're starting
Thread poster: Nicole König
Samuel Murray
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@Tom Oct 15, 2018

Tom in London wrote:
I don't like people using these discussions as a vehicle for advertising.

Yes, it certainly is a bit annoying. But Nicole's post doesn't violate any forum rules. At least she makes it clear in the post that the thing she's linking to is a blog (and we all know how often blogs contain quality writing or quality content, don't we?), and at least she posts an introductory sample sentence as a further indicator of the kind of quality we can expect if we click the link. Anyone who does click the link after that, have had fair warning and should not complain.

Nicole König wrote:
I'd love your thoughts and feedback.

I'm sure you mean well and I'm sure there must be translators out there who believe that they can understand what you're trying to say. But it is dreadful writing. Perhaps it is simply a genre that I'm too ignorant to appreciate.


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Tom in London
Tom in London
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First of all.... Oct 15, 2018

Samuel Murray wrote:

.... it is dreadful writing.


First of all, it's "at Square One", not "on square one".


 
Samuel Murray
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@Tom Oct 15, 2018

Tom in London wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
.... it is dreadful writing.

First of all, it's "at Square One", not "on square one".

Commenting on the author's use of "at square one" should be "last of all", not first of all. A bad piece of writing is still bad even if you fix all the grammar errors. Only an elegant piece of writing that suffers from bad grammar will benefit from nitpicking about such issues. First fix the big problems. What little problems there were will disappear and be replaced with other little problems. Then fix the little problems.

Also, if someone's only criticism of a piece of writing is its grammar and syntax, it raises the suspicion that the criticizer saw nothing wrong with the text in general and is in fact unable to tell good writing from bad.

No, I was thinking more of chunks of text like "it’s hard to make money in terms of continuously generating a noteworthy amount of net profit if you don’t have a business plan".


Michele Fauble
Robert Forstag
 
Nicole König
Nicole König  Identity Verified
Germany
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German to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Thank you kindly Oct 15, 2018

Thank you kindly, everyone who took the time to chime in.
I value and appreciate all constructive and well-meaning feedback very much.
We've taken measures to make the article more enjoyable and, needless to say, another round of proofreading has already taken place.

Have a fantastic week!


 
Rebecca Davis
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And the point is? Oct 15, 2018

Quite apart from the clunky syntax, grammatical errors, and consultant-speak, I don't understand what this piece is doing in a forum for professional translators in the first place...Are these all mistakes that the author made and wants to tell us about, or am I missing something?

Michele Fauble
Daryo
 
Samuel Murray
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English to Afrikaans
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@Rebecca Oct 15, 2018

Rebecca Davis wrote:
I don't understand what this piece is doing in a forum for professional translators in the first place... are these all mistakes that the author made and wants to tell us about?


As far as I understand, Nicole is a translator with a motivational speaking side-line. Her post is intended to promote two translator-related events (one paid, one free with registration). Since this is the "Getting established" forum, any content about mistakes made by beginners and how to avoid them is "on-topic", as far as I'm concerned, even if the author did not make these mistakes herself.

I'm not thrilled about the posting of platitudes masquerading as useful content purely as a cover to promote a product or event, but it's not specifically against forum rules even if it is a little dishonest. It's true that Nicole's blog post doesn't say anything new or doesn't really offer anything useful, but the same is also often true when people post genuine advice on this forum -- little is actually new.


[Edited at 2018-10-15 14:54 GMT]


Robert Forstag
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Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:45
Spanish to English
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Two general points Oct 15, 2018

Samuel Murray wrote:
A bad piece of writing is still bad even if you fix all the grammar errors. Only an elegant piece of writing that suffers from bad grammar will benefit from nitpicking about such issues.


I think you meant “otherwise elegant,” but I take your point: You can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear.

Two points seem to be in order as regards the present discussion:
1.
Anyone marketing professional translation services into English would be well advised to ensure that his or her English writing on a public forum is, at the very least, of acceptable quality.
2.
Anyone presuming to give professional advice to other linguists, and who wishes to be taken seriously, has the obligation to use his or her language of choice in a way that is not merely acceptable, but impeccable.


[Edited at 2018-10-16 15:33 GMT]


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Mirko Mainardi
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Acceptable vs. Impeccable Oct 15, 2018

Robert Forstag wrote:

Two points seem to be in order as regards the present discussion:
1.
Anyone marketing professional translation services into English would be well advised to assure that his or her English writing on a public forum is, at the very least, of acceptable quality.
2.
Anyone presuming to give professional advice to other linguists, and who wishes to be taken seriously, has the obligation to use his or her language of choice in a way that is not merely acceptable, but impeccable.


Actually, I would invert the two. I think someone who translates into a language should have a perfect command of that language, while someone who gives "professional advice" to others should just be able to make themself understood using the language (either English or the target audience's language) at an "acceptable" level. In the end, that's what happens everyday here on the fora, where "professional advice" is exchanged between people with varying degrees of knowledge and proficiency in English (and other languages). If by "professional" advice you actually meant "paid for", then I agree that form would be somewhat more important, but still less than it is when it comes to translation services, as in this case the "product" being sold IS the language itself, not the advice.


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Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 01:45
Italian to English
Clickbait Oct 15, 2018

I signed up for the Coffee Hour Webinar called "Client List Expansion"; instead what I got was the presenter talking about her own CV and achievements for twenty minutes, followed by fifteen minutes of what she was going to talk about at this famous conference in November. After that I switched off.

While I understand that a free webinar is not going to equal a paid one in terms of content, misleading people with clickbait titles is annoying and frustrating, as well as doing the or
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I signed up for the Coffee Hour Webinar called "Client List Expansion"; instead what I got was the presenter talking about her own CV and achievements for twenty minutes, followed by fifteen minutes of what she was going to talk about at this famous conference in November. After that I switched off.

While I understand that a free webinar is not going to equal a paid one in terms of content, misleading people with clickbait titles is annoying and frustrating, as well as doing the organiser's reputation little good in the long run.

Or maybe I missed the best part at the end?

[Edited at 2018-10-15 22:59 GMT]
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Robert Forstag
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Tom in London
Tom in London
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Italian to English
We? Oct 16, 2018

Nicole König wrote:

We've taken measures to make the article more enjoyable and, needless to say, another round of proofreading has already taken place.

Have a fantastic week!


We?

I have no plans for the week.


Rebecca Davis
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
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Glass houses and stones Oct 16, 2018

Robert Forstag wrote:
Anyone marketing professional translation services into English would be well advised to assure that his or her English writing on a public forum is, at the very least, of acceptable quality.

Ensure?

Sorry, couldn't resist!

I do agree with you, but I don't think there is much to gain from knocking other people's writing on here. It can so easily come back to bite you.



Tom in London wrote:
I have no plans for the week.

Maybe you should spend the week using Nicole's tips to build an "online storefront that funnels your uniqueness and niche expertise into a client fanbase" and so "go from coffee to champagne, from self-employed to self-actualization, from feast and famine to financial freedom"!


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Robert Forstag
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Spanish to English
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Ouch! Oct 16, 2018

Chris S wrote:

Robert Forstag wrote:
Anyone marketing professional translation services into English would be well advised to assure that his or her English writing on a public forum is, at the very least, of acceptable quality.

Ensure?

Sorry, couldn't resist!

I do agree with you, but I don't think there is much to gain from knocking other people's writing on here. It can so easily come back to bite you.



Sloppy on my part. Bite deserved. Correction made.

No one is immune to making mistakes. But I also don’t think one should refrain from reporting a murder he has witnessed because he has a couple of unpaid parking tickets....

[Edited at 2018-10-16 17:43 GMT]


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Merab Dekano
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My thoughts Oct 16, 2018

I agree with Tom; the objective behind the blog is self-promotion. In any case, this “ad” is not targeting us. Rather, it is focused on outsourcers, as they too read these threads. This is, by all means, a legitimate endeavour. I do not agree with some colleagues here who criticise it.

As a side note, though, keeping a blog, a website or social media sites updated and "content-rich" takes quite some time. My opinion is that either you do it well (which, unfortunately, is a full-
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I agree with Tom; the objective behind the blog is self-promotion. In any case, this “ad” is not targeting us. Rather, it is focused on outsourcers, as they too read these threads. This is, by all means, a legitimate endeavour. I do not agree with some colleagues here who criticise it.

As a side note, though, keeping a blog, a website or social media sites updated and "content-rich" takes quite some time. My opinion is that either you do it well (which, unfortunately, is a full-time job) or you don’t do it. I decided not to do it, as I simply do not have enough time to do blogging, updating websites, feeding social media sites, etc. This is the reason I scrapped my website, as well as my social media sites. I am trying to keep my ProZ profile “appealing” enough, and I do like to participate in these forum threads, when I am not working (which means, I am not working right now, as I write this message).

It’s all about doing something only if you can do it very well. Otherwise, it may turn against you...


[Edited at 2018-10-16 16:19 GMT]
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Christopher Schröder
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Angela Malik
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United Kingdom
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Free webinars ESPECIALLY should offer excellent content in order to have the most impact Oct 17, 2018

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

While I understand that a free webinar is not going to equal a paid one in terms of content, misleading people with clickbait titles is annoying and frustrating, as well as doing the organiser's reputation little good in the long run.



Absolutely agree. Also, I do lots of free webinars and courses as part of my CPD throughout the year. They are not all interesting but all so far have contained useful information. Free does not have to mean crappy, useless content.

It would seem to me that if part of your own business plan involves marketing your motivational/consulting services, and you offer something free to give people a taster and convince them that your services are worth paying for, then you better make sure the free stuff you offer is REALLY REALLY useful and is about them, your target market. They have to feel that what you are offering is of value to them.

Otherwise, as you say, Fiona, your target market only becomes annoyed and frustrated and your reputation takes a hit.


Christopher Schröder
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
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United Kingdom
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English to Italian
SEO strategy... Oct 17, 2018

It's called "link building"... it's an old trick... it can help the Google ranking, but it can also backfire...

Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Kevin Fulton
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