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SecurePRO update - list of security practices derived from SecurePRO cards
Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: I would appreciate constructive feedback... don't need the sarcasm. Thanks!
Ali Bayraktar
Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Aug 20, 2017



[Edited at 2017-08-21 03:18 GMT]


 
Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:48
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
I would appreciate information useful in curating this list Aug 20, 2017

Thanks for your comments, folks. To the bewildered and nonplussed (hee), by way of explanation I would direct you to point #9 of the ProZ.com guiding principles, which will explain why when a ProZ.com member chooses to present his or her services in a particular way, or more broadly, run his or her business in a certain way, the inclination of the site staff should be and is, to facilitate that person in that respect, rather than passing judgment (to the extent that the practice is not illegal o... See more
Thanks for your comments, folks. To the bewildered and nonplussed (hee), by way of explanation I would direct you to point #9 of the ProZ.com guiding principles, which will explain why when a ProZ.com member chooses to present his or her services in a particular way, or more broadly, run his or her business in a certain way, the inclination of the site staff should be and is, to facilitate that person in that respect, rather than passing judgment (to the extent that the practice is not illegal or otherwise quite objectionable.)

The practices listed above are practices that real members of this site, freelancers like yourselves, choose to offer to clients, sometimes as part of their standard offering, and sometimes conditioned upon the rate of pay or other characteristics having to do with the desirability and security needs of a particular job. In contrast, several of you here wish to make clear that you do not offer such services. Excellent. What we, as the ProZ.com team do, is, without passing judgment, enable you to do just that (or in the words of point #9, "run your business the way you feel is appropriate"), and perhaps in a more efficient manner. That's pretty much what ProZ.com sells, and presumably, part of what members buy; ProZ.com is an "enabling"-type business.

I do hope to improve the list, and would very much appreciate feedback of the sort that is useful in that respect. I am most interested in feedback from those members who do see value in communicating to clients their capabilities and practices related to security, i.e. those who are making use of the SecurePRO card and features. Those of you who have opted out, I value your opinions, too, but maybe limit yourself to just one or two posts here, since you are not going to be using the features anyway. If your goal is to have the initiative canceled, don't waste your time. As many of you posting here have had clarified in the past, we always give you the prerogative of using or not using features, but we never abide an intention by one member to obstruct another member's legal and valid use of the site in line with their own approach to business. (And for that reason, I am removing the recent sarcastic post.)
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Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:48
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Your position is perfectly valid, Sheila Aug 20, 2017

Sheila Wilson wrote:

=== Handling of content/files ===

This:
* I take care to prevent project files and content from being accessed by unauthorized parties
with a bit of tweaking to cover non-digital client information, covers all the others relating to data/client privacy perfectly adequately, with any T&C specific to particular clients being negotiable.

=== Physical office ===

What on earth do any of those have to do with any client? Is it so they can have more leverage over us because we 'just homeworkers', as though we stick things in envelopes for a loaf-of-bread-per-hour rate? Why should any business make its offices available for inspection (unless by the authorities - who will do it if they so wish, SecurePRO or not)? These and many others that follow are just simply none of their business, or else they're covered by the first one.

In short, I do not see any need for all this, and I see it as a definite step by ProZ.com to incite clients (not employers, remember?) to be intrusive and tell us how to run our professional and even our personal lives. By refusing to go along with this feature we'll be made to look as though we're somehow a risk. That makes this feature a really, really serious negative, to my mind.

I think I understand this feeling of yours to some degree... but maybe not fully. You have no problem stating here that you find that one term to pretty much cover your approach to data security, and you would not agree to things relating to your home office. Perfectly reasonable position, and one you find reason to state here. What's wrong with saying that in your profile with tickboxes?

I thought this security thing that was promised, and that encouraged me to opt for the Plus grade of membership, was going to somehow give ME security.

No, no. You must not have watched the video or read the announcements very carefully. This is about protecting the security of client data. (This is actually an area in which the interests of the LSP and freelancer are aligned: it is in the interest of both parties to protect confidential data, and comply with end-client requirements, while achieving optimal efficiency on the project. And in fact the end-client also has the same motivations.)


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:48
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, M. Ali. At this stage, it is about stating one's offerings Aug 20, 2017

Ali Bayraktar wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:
1- === Handling of content/files ===
2- === Productivity tools ===
3- === Physical office ===
4- === Work computer / mobile phone ===
5- === Networking ===
6- === Personal identity ===
7- === Password practices ===
8- === Certifications ===
9- === Ethics ===
10- === Other personal characteristics === .


To my opinion Points 1, 5, 7, 9 and 10 are subjective points and can not be verified by any third party (here we can say ProZ)
But Points 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 are objective points and can be verified by any third party.

All those SecurePRO thing is about being able to prove the trustworthiness, security, carefulness and professionalism with the files and contents of the client right?

At this stage we are not providing a means to prove -- just to state one's offerings. If you take one of the security practices on the list, there are people who offer that practice in all cases, people who offer it conditionally, and people who either can not or will not ever offer it. So first off, what is presented is a way to state one's position on these things. That's what has been available since last November, and what we are proposing to make more efficient now by curating a list.

Shortly speaking how to use ProZ.com and its tools as our witnesses in the subject of Privacy and Security?

I understand the desire to have third-party verification of one's security practices and capabilities. We would like to help make that sort of thing available to freelancers. We are not at that stage right now.


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:48
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Not in my opinion, Jenny Aug 20, 2017

Jenny Forbes wrote:
Exactly like Sheila, I'm not at all happy with this new list of "security" declarations.
Apart from the fact that many of them are truly unverifiable, there are few items in the list which I would be willing or even able to endorse.
However, that doesn't mean I am not who I say I am or that I'm not an honest, hard-working, trustworthy and reliable translator.
Won't my "non-ticking" of most of the items in the list convey the contrary impression?

I don't think so. Do you?

And if you are unwilling or unable to agree to a certain practice, isn't it better that people know that, so they don't bother asking you for it?


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:48
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Who's imposing here? Aug 21, 2017

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

Henry Dotterer wrote:

* My home office is in its own room.
* I am the only one who uses my home office.

* I am willing to agree to make my home office available for on-site audit.


I live in an extremely small flat, and do not have the luxury of the first two.
... the infinite variety of freelancers' homes and working conditions are such that trying to impose some kind of "one size fits all" approach is discriminatory and unfair.

There is nothing about letting you state your offerings in a convenient fashion that imposes or discriminates. As for "one size fits all", it is precisely because these things differ from person to person that there would be any need for this sort of feature.

The security measures I adopt as a freelancer are written into my Terms and Conditions

OK, so you do understand the purpose of clarifying one's service offerings. What, then, is your point in arguing against this feature? If you are arguing that other members of the site should not be permitted to state that they have a dedicated office space, is it not you attempting to impose your preferences on others?

Or is it the convenience that you are arguing against? Is that you prefer that those who do not have their own Terms and Conditions, continue to not have them?


 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:48
German to English
+ ...
just on one point Aug 21, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:

And if you are unwilling or unable to agree to a certain practice, isn't it better that people know that, so they don't bother asking you for it?

I have been a full time professional freelance translator for around 30 years. No client has ever asked me for or about any of these things.
I am with Sheila, and in more general, the whole thing has an odd feeling about it.

What clients ask me is:
- Are you certified?
- Are you able to do this translation for me?
- How much do you charge, and by when can I expect it?

In turn, I guide new clients through procedures, ask pertinent questions to enable me to give them a better product. By the same token I have never asked my accountant, doctor, or dentist about the confidentiality of my information. I expect professionals to act professionally. My clients assume the same.


Olaf Heinsohn
 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:48
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Really, Maxi? Aug 21, 2017

Maxi Schwarz wrote:
Henry Dotterer wrote:

And if you are unwilling or unable to agree to a certain practice, isn't it better that people know that, so they don't bother asking you for it?

I have been a full time professional freelance translator for around 30 years. No client has ever asked me for or about any of these things.

Your experience seems atypical. None of your clients has asked you to sign an NDA?

By the same token I have never asked my accountant, doctor, or dentist about the confidentiality of my information. I expect professionals to act professionally. My clients assume the same.

I would say that in my area, most accountants, doctors and dentists have written policies related to confidentiality. Is the same not true in your area?


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:48
Member (2008)
Italian to English
NDAs Aug 21, 2017

Various clients have asked me to sign NDAs. These agreements prohibit me from disclosing any information to third parties. Since Proz.com is a third party I would never provide any information to Proz about any NDAs I have, who they are with, etc.

 
Ali Bayraktar
Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
I think this is not the point Aug 21, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Various clients have asked me to sign NDAs. These agreements prohibit me from disclosing any information to third parties. Since Proz.com is a third party I would never provide any information to Proz about any NDAs I have, who they are with, etc.


As far as I understand from what I read in SecurePRO, this program does not require you to reveal your information.
It serves as a business card showing that you are a Security Professional in your works.

For example, there is a Certified Pro section in the site (red seals in some profiles).
This seal shows that the translator/company/interpreter has certified his/her main documents and abilities in translation/interpretation.

I think the similar thing applies in SecurePRO section.
But this time you don't reveal any confidential information but declare that you are a Security Professional in your work.

Like business card.
But only your security and establishment section is shown.

This is what I understand from that program.
And that's why I see this as useful tool.
Another tool of marketing.
But this time we dont write it with our words in our profiles, but site provides us a ready selections.
And Henry asks us about those selections.
This is the part of our profiles (and our profiles are our CVs)

This is my understanding of this program.
I hope it is close to the original intention of ProZ.

Best,

M. Ali

[Edited at 2017-08-21 09:04 GMT]


Hassan Bekhit Hassan
 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 19:48
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
When creating a SecurePRO card, imagine you are speaking to a prospective client Aug 21, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Various clients have asked me to sign NDAs. These agreements prohibit me from disclosing any information to third parties. Since Proz.com is a third party I would never provide any information to Proz about any NDAs I have, who they are with, etc.

Choosing not to disclose anything via ProZ.com is fair enough. But I sense a misunderstanding and I'd like to correct it. ProZ.com is a web-based service, inanimate, like Gmail. The team behind the website doesn't have much use for information about your security practices; no one here is asking you for that information. When completing a SecurePRO card, one should be writing as though speaking to a prospective client or collaborator -- as in some cases, they will care.

For this reason, "I'm willing to sign NDA's" is one of the most common statements made in SecurePRO cards.


 
Maija Cirule
Maija Cirule  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 01:48
German to English
+ ...
I don't see any problem Aug 21, 2017

Ali Bayraktar wrote:

Tom in London wrote:

Various clients have asked me to sign NDAs. These agreements prohibit me from disclosing any information to third parties. Since Proz.com is a third party I would never provide any information to Proz about any NDAs I have, who they are with, etc.


As far as I understand from what I read in SecurePRO, this program does not require you to reveal your information.
It serves as a business card showing that you are a Security Professional in your works.

For example, there is a Certified Pro section in the site (red seals in some profiles).
This seal shows that the translator/company/interpreter has certified his/her main documents and abilities in translation/interpretation.

I think the similar thing applies in SecurePRO section.
But this time you don't reveal any confidential information but declare that you are a Security Professional in your work.

Like business card.
But only your security and establishment section is shown.

This is what I understand from that program.
And that's why I see this as useful tool.
Another tool of marketing.
But this time we dont write it with our words in our profiles, but site provides us a ready selections.
And Henry asks us about those selections.
This is the part of our profiles (and our profiles are our CVs)

This is my understanding of this program.
I hope it is close to the original intention of ProZ.

Best,

M. Ali

[Edited at 2017-08-21 09:04 GMT]

As I understand from Henry's text, 1. "This list was built by analyzing unstructured texts entered in SecurePRO cards by profile owners." I don't think that all these people are just plain stupid. 2. The given phrases are not mandatory, you can tick or not tick them at your own discretion. 3. Nobody is forced to use SecurePro.
Therefore, I can't figure out what this fuss is about. Of course, these are my 2 cents only but in my book this feature and Enhanced Profile Analytics are the first two useful offerings (for me) from the whole Plus package.


 
Ali Bayraktar
Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
Why me? Aug 21, 2017

Maija Cirule wrote:

As I understand from Henry's text, 1. "This list was built by analyzing unstructured texts entered in SecurePRO cards by profile owners." I don't think that all these people are just plain stupid. 2. The given phrases are not mandatory, you can tick or not tick them at your own discretion. 3. Nobody is forced to use SecurePro.
Therefore, I can't figure out what this fuss is about. Of course, these are my 2 cents only but in my book this feature and Enhanced Profile Analytics are the first two useful offerings (for me) from the whole Plus package.


Why?
My position here is not against to this initiative.
I support this and think that this will make most of the communication easier for all of us.
For example requesting CVs step by step becoming unnecessary as we declare all in our profiles.
Like Linkedin.
Nobody in LinkedIn can request CV from another member right?
Everything can be seen in the profiles and it is very useful.

Best,

M. Ali


 
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SecurePRO update - list of security practices derived from SecurePRO cards






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